EP006 - How to build a remote company culture with Nini Fritz of Work Happiness Project
About the episode
This episode focuses on remote team building. How can we build a thriving work culture when our team is remote? What remote team culture means, and how it impacts our lives? I invited Nini Fritz, founder of The Work Happiness Project and remote culture expert, to discuss the topic.
About the guest
Nini is the founder of the Remote Teambuilding company “The Work Happiness Project.” Her mission is to humanise the digital work environment and boost remote team bonds by bringing more meaningful connections and personal fulfilment to the virtual office.
She now lives the coconut-slurping remote life from the beaches of Bali and helps global teams like Meta, Dell and Google to make connections stronger than wifi and live their best Bucket List lives.
Connect with Nini on LinkedIn.
About the host
My name is Peter Benei, founder of Anywhere Consulting. My mission is to help and inspire a community of remote leaders who can bring more autonomy, transparency, and leverage to their businesses, ultimately empowering their colleagues to be happier, more independent, and more self-conscious.
Connect with me on LinkedIn.
Want to become a guest on the show? Contact me here.
Quotes from the show
When we organize any kind of cultural activity remotely, it feels like if we invite others to our home. The space is alive around us, we wear our home clothes, and we have a genuine conversation with our colleagues.
In the office, these sacred water-cooler conversations are much more shallow as we are still in our work-mode.
According to stats the majority of workforce thrives within companies with strong culture and the majority of job seekers are listing inclusive and engaging work culture as their number one priority. People actually willing to cut back on their compensation just not to work in toxic workplaces.
No money can compensate for a toxic workplace.
Investing in a remote work culture or work culture in general works like an actual investment that pays out dividends. Happy employees make happy profits.
In a remote environment the investment is even easier as you don’t pay huge amounts for office spaces. That money can go straight into company culture as an investment.
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Peter: Welcome to the Leadership Anywhere Show, sorry for my voice. It's winter in Europe and pretty much everyone is battling with some sort of cold during these days. I have a little bit of sore throat, but I hope that everything will be hearable and audible on your end. I have Nini Fritz on the show. Welcome, Nini.
Nini: Thank you, Peter
Peter: Lovely to have you here, and we will talk a little bit more about company culture and how we can connect people remotely. And before we do that, I think it's really important to, to address the company culture in a remote environment, because from a leader's perspective, if you think about measuring employee performance setting up a company structure, setting up team structures, defining who's communicating with whom and managing a whole project. I think we, for all of these questions, we have kind of like a pretty clear answer on how to do that. But when someone asking that, okay, but how do we make people engaged? Feel engaged? Yeah. Motivated, committed and how do we build a company culture in general? Everyone freaks out because, it's a super, super hard thing to do remotely. It's one of the most challenging aspects of remote work. Of course we do have a lot of technology to solve this problem, but technology cannot really solve the human connection part. So, During this series of podcasting, by the way that's why I feel that, although I'm not a company culture expert, but I do think that we will have more and more guests addressing these points. And I am hundred percent sure that each of the answers from each of these guests will be, well, not totally, but kind of different . And that's okay. And that's okay. Culture is fluid, culture is diverse, so the answers should be fluid and diverse as well. But I can guarantee that at least for today, we will have a clear answer from Nini.
Nini: I hope we do . Yeah, I'm pretty optimistic. I consult that riddle.
Peter: So just to start off tell me a little bit more of a background story. How did you, how did you end up working remotely on the first place? Because I think how people end up working remotely Yeah. Pretty much defines how they view the whole remote word environment. So how did you end up?
Nini: That's a very good question and I almost feel like this could deserve its own podcast. Just to answer that question. Back like a long, long time. I actually, I, when I wrote my master thesis, I was mostly writing from like cafes and like cool little neighborhood coffees in Amsterdam and I've always seen people working on their laptop and I'm like, wow. Like when I'm done with this thesis, I wanna have a job that allows me to kind of, you know, open my laptop work from anywhere and maybe like go to the office like a few days a week to just like, socialize with colleagues. Like that was the only reason, just for the socializing part. And then I handed in my thesis, I took a bucket list year, which was kind of a year of doing all the things I've always wanted to see and do. And I didn't really know what I wanted to do for work, but I thought I'm gonna take a year to just, you know, follow that path and try everything out and then figure out what makes me smile, what makes me happy. And I was journaling a lot in that time. Then every time I had this new like light bulb moment I put it in my Google Doc that was called the Future Job Brainstorm Doc or something. It wasn't really structured, but every time I had this new like, you know, spark of inspiration, I'm like, oh, that's another value I wanna find in my future job. Like that's something that's important to me. And kind of, yeah, just creating my value, interest and skills list based on this year of just going out and exploring. And finally that was a whole longer story, but I came across a very, very inspiring TED talk about bucket list. And when I moved to Australia, I actually reached out to the guy who gave the TED Talk and I ended up working for this bucket list company remotely. So he called me on my 25th birthday, which was exactly the end of my own bucket list year. And yeah, asked me if I wanted to take over the marketing department as a remote job position. And I looked at my list of values and interest. I'm like, wow, I can't believe that this job literally ticks off everything I've ever wanted. So yeah, I kind of fell into this remote worlds without even intending to do so, like, just from this idea of working in a coffee shop to eventually, you know, following my passion, following my heart, not really having a clear plan. And then as I was figuring out, it kind of been served to me on a silver plate. So yeah, I was working in Sydney and my company was based in Melbourne. So every quarter, like once every three months, I flew down to Melbourne. We had the headquarter meeting. And I really loved the message. I really enjoyed the freedom that came with it, but eventually I realized like I'm way too much of a people person to just sit in front of my laptop the whole day, like creating ads, occasionally having a Zoom chat, but I was just missing like this human aspect. So yeah, I luckily had this bucket list coaching license. That was the initial reason I was joining the company first, and then I just quit the marketing role and I was like, well, let's tackle the issue. And instead of making a trade off, if it has to be like either freedom to work from anywhere or belonging to like an uplifting, positive culture and, you know, feel like you're part of something bigger. I was just thinking, well, I have to close the gap by just focusing on remote team building on boosting like remote cultures. Cuz I feel like that hasn't really been trending yet. Like people are kind of slowly but truly build up the systems of going remote. But then there was this whole like human component lacking. So yeah, I took out the license. Quit the marketing role and I build up the Work Happiness Project which is team building platform for remote companies. And now I offer a bunch of different workshops, help them to like build a positive corporate culture across borders and make sure they can work from anywhere and feel connected to everyone. That's the cheesy tagline, .
Peter: That's a, that's a lovely story and it's so interesting that how, not just I, I heard this motivation from others as well, that they're super people person. Yeah. But they also value freedom to work from anywhere but they still, because they're doing this, they're still missing this aspect of like really connecting to people. Yeah. Yeah. And usually these people end up in offering services around company culture. Yeah. Because they are trying to fill that gap within the remote environment. That is fair. Yeah. The, the actual human connection part. Yeah. It's so interesting. And tell me a little bit more about the the workshops that you do because again I heard so many answers to how to do proper remote company culture and, and in most cases, it's so weird, by the way, in most cases the answers are all the same. Meaning that Yeah the way that you do company culture is to grab the people who are working in front of the computer. And put them in a beach or a ship or, I don't care, but it's like a retreat. Yeah. Which, which means real real life connections. Yeah. Yes, yes. And only a few people, I think you will one of those few who will say that the workshops sometimes can happen online and it still can connect. So tell me a little bit more about those workshops please.
Nini: Yeah, well I believe in like a healthy remote company culture, pretty much like a healthy, long distance relationship. Recently wrote a LinkedIn post about it and as I was writing I found like more and more parallels and I do think you can actually like, create like much more uplifting, much stronger company culture online. Then you can do offline because it's something that you have to create like artificially in that way because it's expected to just flow naturally in the office setting. You know, you just have these water cooler chats anyways. You know, you have these two minutes before a meeting where you can just talk about the last soccer match or Game of Thrones or whatever it might be. But it's just, it does, it's not enforced in enough office setting. But therefore it can also be lacking. Like, it's not like conscious quality time that you take out with your colleagues. It's just like, oh, we just, you know, we both want a coffee. So sometimes it can also be like very shallow, small talk. But I do believe when you set that up for like a remote company, you actually like really invest in making it quality time. So when you schedule a virtual copy with a colleague, I'm gonna come to you in a second as I do like no small talk coffee breaks with teams. Yeah, actually, like, make sure they're really getting to know each other. They don't talk about work, they talk about something personal. They have a theme around it, like it's conscious present time that both are tuning in to just share a conversation and therefore actually build a stronger bond than when we get a coffee at the office, we probably check our phone , and we're not necessarily like keen to just have a profound conversation about the meaning of life with our coworkers. And yeah, like they're a bunch of other cues that you can just tell, like when we make this time that we spend with our colleagues online very valuable. It can be much more nurturing and yeah, built eventually it's been like scientifically proven that when you first meet online, And then you meet offline, it actually creates a stronger connection cuz I mean, there haven't been many reasons. Like in the article, there were not too many reasons why they just stated that this is the case. But I think it's altered a component that now we invite people into our home. You see like the cat walking over the keyboard, the kids are running inside. So you kind of blend this hat that you put on. It's like, I'm the marketing person, I'm the salesperson with, I'm also a human being, you know, I'm also like a dad. I'm a husband, or whatever. And it just makes you, in a way, like more approachable. And this is how we connect with others. Like we connect through vulnerability, authenticity, and in this office setting, we're all just walking in with like a suit and tie, whatever. When we work from home. I talked to one of those top LinkedIn voices this week. He was rocking up in his pajama pants, and I'm like, cool. I wear my Christmas hat. And it almost made us feel much more connected and thinking like, Ooh, I have this meeting with this very important person in, you know, the top floor of the skyscraper. No, you just, like, it's much more like connecting. Yeah.
Peter: I've read a story a few days ago, which had a question in it. It was from Harvard Business Review, I think. And the question was that it's now are we allowed to share emotions in the office? Yeah. And and the answer was yes, but it was just by like having this question, it was like, weird to me at least a little bit. Yeah. And I think what people really mean in this question is that can we share the emotions that are like adult emotions? Because in a remote environment everything is like more fluid. At least whenever I had any kind of team gatherings or even just a meeting a simple standup meeting, you know, what are you working on this week? Yeah. What are these kind of stuff. People tend to share a little bit more Yeah. About their, their personal stuff. Yeah. Even if they're introverts, by the way. That's Yeah. It is also so weird because they're not standing in front of like a Yeah. A group of people. Yeah. They a screen essentially, right? Yeah. Yeah. So it's totally different. So I think it's super interesting. And what other thing is, is super interesting to me is that when I started working remotely, it was evident that you need to be proactive. Yeah. So you need to plan it out first. Yeah. You need to make the space, you need to create the space. Yeah. And proactively invite people into the space. Yeah. Even if the space allows, only one thing just conversing about what the heck has happened to you and this week.
Nini: Yeah, and it also if we look at the numbers, I just looked up a few stats and it actually says that organizations that actually like empower a strong company culture, they have 72% more engagement compared to like companies with weak cultures. So, I've recently talked to guy working for Oyster. Mm-hmm. , and he said like, oyster is like a hundred percent remote. And from like an economical perspective, you might be thinking like, oh, they're saving so much money on like rental property and stuff. And he was like, yes, but all the money they're saving on not having an office, they actually reinvest in company culture. And I think that is the game changers. Like literally another stat said 66% of job seekers have like a strong company culture as their number one priority. They would rather sacrifice part of the compensation in exchange of like an uplifting and nourishing and positive work environment and culture. Then working for one of like the top five where they just like when you're in a toxic environment, you cannot pay that back. I think no money in the world can compensate a toxic work environment.
Peter: I a hundred percent agree with that. Yes. Yes. And also, sorry, sorry for stage companies when I talked with the leaders they usually say that okay but this like retreat and whatever in Bali or, yeah you know, like usual places. Woohoo. Bali. Bali. Yeah. Yeah. . . Why would I do that? I mean, we have 20 people. Yeah. Like that's like 20 hotel rooms. Yeah. I don't know. It's like super expensive. We don't have that money. Like, like it's, you don't have a, you, you don't have an office. Yeah. So you are, you are not spending money every month. Yeah. Yeah. In like, and not even, I'm not talking about San Francisco. I'm talking about like, I dunno. Germany or like hub in France or London. Yeah. It's, it's insane how much money you can spend on, even if you're just renting out a co-working office or your compensated co-working work for your people you don't do that. So why not reinvests that money into Yeah. Into anything that's more tangible and actually has metrics...
Nini: And it is like an investment that pays off as dividends. You know, if you invest in the mental wellbeing of your employees, it eventually, like, it also serves the bottom line of the, you know, of the profit. I definitely gonna make happy employees make happy profits. That is just a statement and it's not like the chicken and egg question is like they're not happy because they're making money. We know that enthusiasm is contagious. Like statistics show where like, I think up to 50% even more productive when we're more engaged with life. We're more engaged with our job. Like it's a ripple effect that we just have more energy, we're having more enthusiasm and that is in the end, that's what's selling. And that also gets us excited to go to work when we're surrounded by people who just seem to be kind of balanced and content with their lives compared to showing up at the meeting where everyone is just complaining and like insulting each other. No, like that definitely shows in your productivity ratings as well. So I do believe that investing in company culture is like the best money you can spend in a company, cuz that would just give you like such motivated and engaged employees, which you probably couldn't pay with extra, extra hours, extra salary.
Peter: Yes. And also loyalty. I think it's also also important. Especially for during these times when we have this I think it's pretty new, like a year-ish term of the great resignation and silent quitting and whatever mm-hmm. But it was there before, you know, high employee churn within a company, especially for remote teams or remote employees. If you're applying to remote jobs, you know that you can get a job anywhere in the world. Yeah. If you do have like pretty great skills. Yeah. Why would you stay in a company that has toxic work culture for you? Of course. Or, or they're not paying enough for you. Yeah. It's so easy to, to, to quit and, and get a job within a week. Yeah. And but, and, and here's the big, but, and that's where I think the company culture really shines is that you are not really loyal to your family. Yeah. You're loyal to your dad. Yeah. You're loyal to your mom, you're loyal to your sister, your brother, and some, but not that concept of family after family. Yeah. Yeah. That's true for the company. You're not loyal for the company. Yeah. You're loyal to your colleagues, your loyal and individual coworkers. Yeah. Individual coworkers. Yes. And when you're building that bond with them through events or whatever you do that bond actually keeps people within that circle.
Nini: Yeah, it's much, much harder leaving like your best friend at work than just leaving the job. You know, I think we're not as emotionally attached to the job we're doing. I'm coming with all these stats, but it's also shown that you're like seven times more likely to stay in a job when you have a best friend at work. And it doesn't have to mean they're also your best friend in life, but just generally having someone that you feel like, oh, it feels like an anchor, like somebody like, you know, we're like this dream team and my buddy in crime. And then it's much harder to leave a team cuz it's like the human bonds that we are creating that take time to nurture, to grow. So that is actually like the irreplaceable component.
Peter: And you generally care about your coworkers. Yeah. And when some leaders actually said to me that, okay, but can I build a whole company out of like offshore outsourcing? Yeah. And like, like don't really care about the, you know what they do, they just do the project and that's it. Yeah. Yeah. They can, of course. Yeah. But like, you know, you can't really imagine or, or plan if they're bonding with each other, they're, they're replacable. So why not build a team instead? And that's the whole difference.
Nini: During the pandemic or before pre pandemic, I think there were maybe 17% remote. And then Covid just forced everyone to go remote, which then meant that companies, they defined ways to implement the systems and they were like, great, now everybody can work from home. But I think people completely. Yeah, I wouldn't even say misunderstand, but like they put it like on the same level saying like, yeah, we're remote now because we have everything online and people work from home. Or compared to like a company that actually has remote first approach, which is I think like a whole different world. Like yes. You know, then remote first is the choice. Remote first means that we intentionally don't have an office because we believe in like, the freedom of our employees. We believe in the systems. We came up with like thinking through of how to build a culture online and not just saying like, well, you know, now you can work from your kitchen. That's not remote first. And I think like the next development in like remote evolution is actually saying people first. So instead of saying remote first, which is still tied to like, okay, we have the systems, it's people first. So we offer flexibility. We want our people to build their work around life and not their life around work. And therefore, we truly, we trust that this is the way to get like top talent, to attract top talent who can just work at any company. But they choose us because they choose themselves, they choose like freedom and therefore they can actually be more productive, more switched on. Yeah, cuz they, you know, like that's what I base my workshops on as well is like, they supercharge their batteries from the inside. So it's not just the lollipops and goodies they're getting as like, you know, external rewards. It's like their batteries switched on from inside because their employer actually cares about them as a human being and not just human doing in terms of delivering numbers and all of that, but they, they want 'em to see them win in life. So eventually they want them to win as a company.
Peter: This is so amazing and so inspiring, by the way, . . But I would love to see that leaders of hybrid companies as well. Yeah. Talk like this and about this and around this. But I have to be super, super optimistic to, to think that way. Yeah. That people will, will talk about that way later. So what do you think most of the news that we see is that companies are forcing people back to the office. Yeah. And it means that, at least to me, no one did get it. Yeah. What, what happened on the pandemic? So what do you think? Will we see a little bit, not just more workshops online, but I like this idea that people first, yeah. Do you, do you think that it'll evolve in hybrid work cultures as well?
Nini: I hope, I truly, truly hope it does. Like, you know, for me, I talk about it so much that for me it's just the most logical thing on earth that it's almost like I almost cannot understand how people cannot, and I'm a very tolerant person and very open-minded to always consider like other people's perspective. But yeah, I mean, I get it that some people, I kind of need the stability. They kind of wanna go to an office because they might not be as focused, as structured when they're like in their own home or they have kids running around, whatever. But I do still think it should be a choice. You know? It's now, now that we have the systems in place, there is no more excuse, like if it worked before. Why do we have to force people to do something when, you know it works otherwise? Like, unless like, show me that there's a legitimate reason why it's not working, like a massive drop in productivity, or, I mean, of course, like remote work comes with its own challenges. Or of course when you're like in the service industry, like you have to be on the spot that cannot be replaced. That all makes sense. But other than that, I'm like, just if you wanna be successful as a company, like make sure that the people who work for you bring their best selves to work. And if that's the office, cool. Provide them an office place, but don't force them if you have the tools to make it work otherwise, like, I just don't understand it. Like, the only reason I could understand is from like a very selfish perspective that like you know, like typical leader kind of needs this ego boost to walk into an office where he walks in with the suit and tie people in the highest floor of the building. And people gonna look at him. It's like the boss is coming, you know, that might be the ego boost that's coming out of it. But other than that, I'm like, just freedom. You know, like give them, give them the choice. And I do believe there are people who prefer to work from the office, but if it's not, and it's gonna make their life much more difficult because, you know, now they have to arrange picking up their kids, like doing the laundry, whatever. Why? I don't understand
Peter: Actually, when you just said this the whole kids and laundry I've heard that a lot of remote first companies now. Yeah. They offer first of all, like working remotely is not a perk. Yeah. So that's like the bottom line. Yeah. So what other perks you can do as a remote company and some remote companies are actually doing this supporting the freedom of the normal lives. Yeah. So they have a demand for cleaning services at home. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And contributing to childcare and stuff like that. Yeah. Home. So it's really nice. Yeah. I think that's also falls into the people first category. Yeah.
Nini: And like I recently read, published another article and, and I was also talking about employee benefits for remote teams kind of in alignment with, you know what, whatever money we save on rental property, we reinvest in the company culture and in our people. And there's so many cool ways to really, like, on a very personalized level, like boost engagement. And that could be any, basically any office perk that you were getting. Just bring that home, like offer them like a coffee voucher for their favorite coffee place like, They tools like Kahoo or Snack Nation where you can like ship like individual, like customized snack packages to them support their gym membership them meeting, meeting offline. So if two people are like in the same city to cover a dinner for them, pay a concert tickets for them, whatever it is, but like, you know, promote freedom and then boost offline connections if they want to, you know, don't make it mandatory, but like promote it so people are actually getting excited about, you know, buddy systems. It's like, cool, I come to your city for a month and then I go to your city for a month and have like an exchange of let's say Barcelona and Berlin or whatever it is. And it's funny that you like actually just address like the top three misconceptions about what company culture means and one is actually I gave a talk around that and I had those free on it and it said like, ping pong table and fresh juices does not form a company culture. It's also not just how you socialize with your teammates and it's also not easy to build. I think that's kind of you know, the top three stigmas around. Oh, company cultures like, yeah, we're just, you know, socialize and have a Friday drinks. It is, I mean, of course ping pong tables are great, but a company culture is really about like living and breathing your company's core values so that you as an employee and as well as an employer have a value check-in, and it's like what you value most in life and in work is that in alignment with our company values or is it not, and therefore, like you can be authentically believing in what the company does, or it's just doing it for the money. And then also, of course, it is how you socialize together, but it's how you socialize and how you work together. And I think this is mostly being misunderstood, that like, you know, your Friday drinks will souls like the, we all love each other so much issue. No, it's like, be respectful, like be compassionate, be understanding, check in with your colleagues and then therefore you work better together and you also socialize together. And it's also not easy to build, but it actually, it has to be nurtured. It has to grow and come up with like an action plan of how to set up a culture and not just expect it to naturally happen.
Peter: What do you think how, how leaders should change their mindset or can we change their mindset? How they should change the mi, their mindset around this whole remote work culture thing. What would be the main message that you would convey?
Nini: Mm. That's a tricky question to ask, but I think it, it starts with the hiring process, you know, and actually making sure you have people, what I just said that are living and breathing your company values. I think then it's much easier to lead if you feel like, all right, we're already like all on the right track. It's like easier to drag people along. If you, if you all believe in the same thing and let's say you all have like freedom and honesty as like core value like most of you do, then it's, you know, then it's just much easier in your communication and in like the, the type of culture that you want to build when everybody already is more or less like in alignment with the same values. So yeah, I think it's super important as leaders to be clear on your values, on your mission and your vision statement, and then attract the right kind of people who are actually like in alignment with that. I think this is like the basic foundation to get them all on board and like, you know, I'll get on board on this ship and then all heading into the same direction instead of, some people wanna go like East, West, North, whatever. No. Like have your common North Star. I think it's the companies think it's all more money they're spending when they invest more in the hiring process, but eventually they're gonna save it in like lower, like turnover costs. Like if you, if you have like fast, quick hires and they leave the company within a year, which is very, very common that now, especially for a gen Z, they're like looking for individual fulfillment, having a purpose. So a lot of them quit their first job within a year. So if you just be a bit more selective, and again, we come back to this like long distance relationship, or I always compare it to like a relationship with like, you know, like a romantic partners. Like you also would rather want to invest in like setting up a couple of dates to figure out if that's the right person. And then it's actually like a long-term relationship that's built on like, Shared values compared to just like, just another fling and then like a fast turnover without actually doing like a, a value check-in. Yes. So I do think if you wanna retain like top talent and like talent actually suits the company values. As you said, like to spend more time in doing like the fact check first, but then it's gonna pay off eventually cuz you don't have like such high turnover costs to like train talent, invest in them, and then they're leaving and you have to start from scratch again.
Peter: Yes. And and by the way, this is so interesting. No one really talks about the hiring of leaders. Yeah. So when you, when you executive headhunting. Yeah. So if you're trying to find like a chief of whatever Yeah. At a remote company, it's so interesting because a, you cannot really track what they're doing. Yeah. Because it's, you know, it's not like, like task related, whatever. It's a, it's a leadership position. It's trackable through KPIs of course, at the end, but whatever. But also usually you don't, that's what I saw, usually they don't check the culture of fit. Yeah. And when the leader is not fit to the company, and they leave within half a year or a year. Yeah. I'm not saying that, you know, they're like better or worse, but they, it's not like when the junior designer leaves. Yeah. It's, yeah. Yeah. When they leave, they usually pull people with them. Yeah. And the whole team that they've managed is in shackles. Yeah. And, and you need to hire a new leader, which takes time, by the way. Yeah. It's, it's super hard. And you already lost half a year. Yeah. At least. Yeah. By not checking cultural fit. Yeah. Even with the leader. Yeah. So it's really hard.
Nini: I think like every new hire significantly affects the company culture. But especially like a leader, you know, it's like it's the captain of the boat to stay within the same analogy. So if you wanna all head in the same direction, of course it depends on the person who's rowing or who's leading the boat in which direction you're heading. And then you gotta make sure that, you know, the captain is heading in the same direction as stuff.
Peter: Yes. And also it's so interesting that people usually, I mean, it's a, it's a nice thing to say that everyone is a leader. Yeah. But it's, it is actually true. So if you think about how we track performance of leaders Yeah. It's all based on outcomes. Yeah. And the reason why we need to check the cultural fit, if they leave everything will be in ruins. Right? Yeah. Now it's the same for like, like normal non-leadership position people. Yeah. Their performance and their work should be tracked based on outcomes, not by things that they like, you know, chopping through the task list. Yeah. And they also have to be cross-checked for cultural fit. If they leave again, even if it is a smaller piece of the whole puzzle it'll be still in ruins. Yeah. And if people are coming in and coming out from a company, it's high churn. You know, it can like signals something. Definitely, definitely something is not, not right there.
Nini: It should be like a precondition to like do like a proper culture check, you know, as, as much as you're testing their skillset and a like expertise in the industry, do a culture check. Make it mandatory. And if it's not a match, it's not a match and that's okay. You know, they're not bad leaders, they're just not like the right fit for, for your shoe, you know? It's like they're just saying, it's like if the shoe doesn't fit, change the shoe, not the foot . Yes. And there's nothing wrong with it, you know, but then it's just not your match. And that's okay, but they're not gonna be happy and you are not gonna be happy. So Yes.
Peter: Let's talk about the future. So, yeah. I asked the same question from every guest. What do you think where we will be in a year yeah. What do you think, where will we be with the remote work or hybrid work, which will be more prevalent?
Nini: I think the future of work is definitely remote. I think it's a nice try going hybrid, but eventually it's remote cuz we do have the systems in place, like it's more and more trending. I think also gen z is really, that's what they're looking for, you know, these are the perks. They're looking for a flexibility freedom, individual fulfillment, and that just comes with remote work. And I do think we'll have, like, it's gonna be normalized, like now it seems like this super like futuristic thing and remember when I did it, when I went remote, like in 2019, my parents didn't get that I had a real job. They were like, well, you're not going to the office. Like, how can you have a real job? And I think now it's just gonna be normal to work from any place in the world, from any cafe or from your grandma's kitchen, but you just still have a job and you're still being paid . So I think it's gonna be a huge, I mean, let's see how fast they can be within a year. But overall, I think that's gonna be a huge shift in like normalizing remote work that as you mentioned, it's not just gonna be a perk anymore. It's like the perks that come from other things. It's like, how do you invest in your team, in your employees? What are like the real benefits? And remote is just like, kind of like an option. And yeah, I do hope that it's also much more of like a people first shift. I don't have the exact like numbers and statistics for that for now, cuz I feel like that's just like the latest, you know, one step ahead in the making. But yeah, I truly hope there's gonna be a shift towards that. So company is gonna be like people focused and then the profit is just naturally gonna follow and again, this is the core concept of my work and my workshops is like start from within. And Simon Sinek as well says it'd start with why. And I do think that's like a very powerful and infinite source of energy. So if company's gonna pick that up, I think they'd be much more like successful and also like in the long term. Yeah.
Peter: And how do you see yourself, where you will be within a year? Where will you be living and what will you be doing?
Nini: Well that is a good question. I'm like, in a very interesting stage of my life. I'm like 28, but. My birthday's in Feb, so it's, I'm almost gonna be 30th this time next year. So I think like a lot of things happen like between like your, like your last year of your twenties and like more and more developing into adulthood in a way. I do hope and truly that the Work Happiness Project is just gonna blow up. Not necessarily, which is a nice side effect for like monetary purpose, but really because I truly hope that more and more companies gonna pick up this like people first approach and truly believe in that. So I think like when I'm more busy, it actually means that more people can benefit from it and more people find jobs that help them to live, like personally fulfilled lives. So I always see like my success in a way of like, how many lives I can positively impact. So ideally it would be like a, you know, synchronous increase of people, first companies and the Work Happiness Project being like as busy as never before. And yeah, for me, one of my personal goals for personal and professional goals for next year is also setting up more like offsite retreats. So I do normally live in Bali and not just back at my parents for Christmas for two weeks. But normally I'm based in Bali and I wanna create more like yeah, connections stronger than wifi by helping remote teams to get together offline and like organize the retreats and yeah, that's one of my personal goals.
Peter: Sounds nice. Sounds nice. Where can people find you? Contact details.
Nini: I think easiest is first on LinkedIn, Nini Fritz, and then my page is the-work-happiness-project.com otherwise through my LinkedIn. And yeah, always happy to just have like, you know, like a non-mandatory virtual coffee chat to just get to know each other and talk about company culture. And it's not directly linked to like, buy my workshop Now, I'm a people person. I love meeting people and I always feel like whenever I connect with people who are really into like the remote first, people first I always feel like we're so connected. I barely ever share a coffee with someone that I feel like I wouldn't hang out with this person in real life. They're pretty much everyone I meet online I'm like, ah, they're just my kind of people. . So yeah.
Peter: It was an amazing chat. Thank you.
Nini: Thank you. You really asked great questions. I really enjoyed it.
