EP043 - A blueprint for managing distributed teams with Federico Maffini of Amazon AWS
About the episode
This episode focuses on managing a globally distributed team in a massive organization like Amazon AWS. We will discuss how to operate a “startup” within a large organization, and how to keep people engaged and help them contribute by building out a supportive environment online. Federico Maffini, Head of Business Operations at Amazon AWS weighs in with his management experience and insights.
About the guest
Federico Maffini is Head of Business Management within the Customer Optimization and enablement organization at Amazon Web Services, where he leads a large team of Business Analysts and Program Managers located across 4 different geographies (UK, US, IT, DE).
In the past 8 years, he worked within several teams across Amazon and covered various roles in Finance, Program Management, and Sales Operations. Moving across Transportation, Operations, Customer Experience, and Cloud, he gained first-hand experience working on complex and strategic initiatives, making him a rounded leader with interdisciplinary expertise. Throughout, he built teams and supported stakeholders all across the globe.
Federico is a problem solver who marries data with business insights to drive decision-making. He is deeply passionate about mechanisms, which he leverages for multiple purposes, from fostering collaboration to increasing transparency and visibility to ensuring accountability and record-keeping - especially in asynchronous manners and with remote teams.
About the host
My name is Peter Benei, founder of Anywhere Consulting. My mission is to help and inspire a community of remote leaders who can bring more autonomy, transparency, and leverage to their businesses, ultimately empowering their colleagues to be happier, more independent, and more self-conscious.
Connect with me on LinkedIn.
Want to become a guest on the show? Contact me here.
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Welcome everyone. Welcome on today's episode of Leadership Anywhere. Today we will discuss how to manage multiple teams in multiple locations from an enterprise point of view. I have Federico Maffini with me, who's head of business management at Amazon web services. Hello, Frederico.
Hey, Peter. Nice to meet you. I'm excited to be here.
Lovely to have you here and thank you for taking the time to talk about your expertise experiences at Amazon and everywhere else, tell me, how did you arrive here? What's your journey?
At the time I was studying in the Netherlands. And so in order to graduate, I needed to do an internship, which is fairly common. And so I applied to companies here and there. The only thing I was sure that I did not want to do was finance. And sure enough, I landed an internship position at Amazon as a finance intern in the Kindle department which I obviously decided to embark on because Amazon made it worth it. And actually I'm glad that I did. And so three and a half years later, I was still in Luxembourg. I grew a bit on the ladder and progress there. And then eventually I decided that I'd had enough of living in Luxembourg. And I moved to the U. K. So I'm currently still in London in the U. K. I've been here the last five years, and I'm still working at Amazon. But in that journey, I moved teams moved organizations. I left finance behind, and I'm currently a business leader within AWS, as you were saying.
Yes. This is first of all, starting any kind of career in Luxembourg is like weird and interesting and unique kind of, and you're, by the way, you're originally from Italy and it's interesting to see how you grow within a large enterprise organization, right? So tell me a little bit more about what was your role at first? And in the Luxembourg years, and what are you doing right now, just to give a little bit of context for the audience.
Sure. Yeah. So as I was saying, I started in finance and right after the internship as a finance analyst, I continued as a full time finance analyst in a transportation team. So we were owning the transportation costs of Amazon across Europe. And so we were controlling the cost, right? So it was a control ship type of role. And and I really loved it. I was actually, it wasn't really a finance role or partly was, but it had a lot to do with project management and technical project management more than anything. And so we were working with the leaders in transportation providers like UPS, DHL, FedEx, and so forth to move their invoicing to electronic billing so that we could automate the auditing of the cost. And that was fascinating. So it was there for a couple of years. And I got promoted in the meanwhile. So when I then became finance analyst 2, which is the second level, I also left that team and I stayed within the same organization, but I started doing something slightly different. So it was more finance the role that I embarked on later. And after a couple of years, again, I got promoted and actually moved to the UK. So I was in the UK as a senior finance analyst within the transportation team. So doing planning, modeling, budgeting, business partnering was really fascinating. And after a while I really wanted to leave finance and get closer to the customers. So I loved it. I was really good at analyzing data. Data is super important to me still. But I wanted to get closer to the customers, get closer to the business. So I left finance, joined Amazon shipping, which at the time was a sort of a startup within Amazon. Again, a remote distributed team global organization, but it was a smaller one. And also the volumes, the turnover was all like relatively smaller. And the whole proposition was that Amazon wanted to outsource the unused shipping capacity. And so to anyone in the market that needed it. So if you as Peter needed to ship a parcel, technically you could have used Amazon. Now it was a B2B business, but just to make the example a bit more straightforward. And so in that team, I started owning the revenue and the profitability of the business. So it was a business development manager. I was not doing sales, but it was a PM type of role, which I really liked. And after a year and a half I moved on to a different manager and I started owning customer support and customer experience, which was completely new to me. It was fascinating. And I really loved it. I started managing a larger team. I was also given the task to spin up a business analyst function which was my bread and butter, and I really loved it. So I hired a bunch of B. A. S. And I spun up a B. A. Team whilst I was owning customer experience and customer support. After a year or two there, I left because my manager at the time left, went to AWS and after a while she came back to me with an offer that I couldn't turn down, and so I followed her in Amazon Web Services, and here I am. So I've been here about two years and I'm the head of business management, which is again, the perfect marriage between BA so business analytics and program management. So we can get more into the details there later, but it's exactly where my sweet spot is. And just for the sake of completeness, we are within the customer optimization and enablement organization. So we have a hundred plus customer facing specialists who help customers optimize their costs on Amazon web services. So it's a customer excellence type of organization and my team, business management, as the name suggests, we help manage the organization, right? We are the CEOs to the head of CNOE and help the team, the organization with metrics, mechanisms, frameworks, goals, KPIs, and all of that. Amongst others.
Sure. What caught my eye or ear immediately is that you were operating a startup within a big organization. I think what's important to discuss and You can elaborate on that. How much autonomy you have in a smaller team within this bigger team, a, B how do you relate to the whole entire organization? Obviously, Amazon is insanely huge of course. But still, your job is still part of that big whale that we call Amazon.
Yeah, so it's a very good question. And if there is one thing that has kept me at Amazon all these years is the ability that anyone at any level and I'm the proof of that can do anything they want. So me as an intern, as a entry level professional, I had responsibilities and opportunities that my peers in other companies never had. I had the freedom to innovate the freedom to be wrong and be mistaken and fail. Which I did many times, but that's the ethos of Amazon, right? In the name of customer obsession, you are incentivized to innovate. Whatever that takes you. That is true at every level and in every business unit. So in Amazon shipping, which was the startup, the start, the business in itself obviously was growing, experimenting, and it had a lot more freedom and more agility than the larger transportation organization in which we were in then obviously potentially other business units, but at a fundamental level, things are not different. And that's the beauty of Amazon from my perspective, obviously. And that is still true at Amazon Web Services.
This is so interesting. And you're still supported by the big organization anyway, right? So it's almost like you are from day one in an incubator or accelerator for your startup company, which is operating within the whole entire organization.
A hundred percent. A hundred percent. Yeah. No, you're correct. And at Amazon I'm sure if anyone were to Google Amazon, five minutes, one of the first things that we'll come across is this concept of writing. And so we don't do PowerPoints and Jeff Bezos was on record years ago saying that no one at Amazon does PowerPoints, right? We all write six pages, two pages, four pages. And I don't want to get into the details of that, but the whole point is that anyone can write a document at Amazon with their business idea, present it to the leadership and get the buy in. And if the idea is backed by a leader, they're free to do it, to implement it, like whatever that is. And the biggest innovations at Amazon have come from that. Amazon Prime, Amazon Fresh, the Kindle, like many other things. Came from that sort of mindset, right? And then some failed and some became the products that they are today.
And most of these writings are just this is inspiring by the way these are just these writings are all for just business ideas or also for operational level ideas as well. So do you document your like day to day work as well for others to learn from?
It's literally anything and everything. Now, there are different shapes and forms, obviously, of this writing, there is the very formal business writing where you lay out the plans for your business a year out, three years out, and the organization does that twice a year with the operational planning cycles, but even if I, so oftentimes I asked my team and maybe we can go back to this later, Hey, send me like, send me the idea that you had. But put it in writing like it could be an email right but it could also be a quick one page or whatever but like it forces you to really think through the idea that might have come up right at a very granular and intimate level, and we use that every single day to force that quality, right? And raising the bar on a lot of these products and ideas that might be wacky and weird and unfeasible, but that through that process, they might actually come to being something concrete. And we do that for anything.
This is amazing. Let's talk about your current role because in your current role, you are managing multiple people. As the head of the unit how do you do that? And most importantly how do you, what are the main practices that you found are useful or practical? But also please give a little bit more context for the audience. Where these people are located and I don't know, do you have an office, for example?
Yeah. So Amazon unfortunately made it the news recently for demanding people go back to the office a certain number of days a week. So we have always had an office. I've always gone to the office. I used to go five days a week and that was completely normal. And then during COVID, everyone went remote. Now we're going back into the motions of going into work. I currently have a team that's completely dislocated. So I have one person in the UK that reports into me and sits next to me in the office and everyone else. I have two people in Italy, one person in Germany, three people in the US in different locations in the US. So two of them are actually physically together in the same office in New York. The third one is in Arlington. And then, so that's, these are my directs. And then there's a few others around us, obviously that we work with, but I've never really had. A whole team that sat with me ever. The only time that was the case was when I had interns when I was earlier on in my career, obviously, and we would have interns coming in and they would obviously be there. But I've always been part of a team or organizations that have always been dislocated across Europe, best case scenario, across the world, more recently, and yeah, that's been the norm.
Just to recap, you now have mostly East Coast, European time zone, and GMT. Yes. It's yeah, it's European time zone is like easy, it's just one hour, but still, you have three different Time zones on this location and just FYI like this is what I tell to everyone that even if you go back to the office, even if you do have an office, even if you have the hybrid location, like that you go back to three days, two days, whatever days, and then home office and the rest, you still work in a distributed team. It doesn't matter because most of your team members will not be in the same office location. Yeah, especially in a huge organization like yours and at Amazon. Yeah. So how do you like these are people who are reporting to you, right? So how do you manage these people? What are the best practices that you can share? Yeah. How many meetings do you have, for example?
How many meetings I live in meetings, unfortunately. The thing is, let me just add a bit more color. So my organization is over a hundred people, right? So my team is like 10 ish, more or less just to round it up. But the other 90 are all over the world. We have people in Seattle on the west coast where the time zone is obviously even further out compared to ours. People in APJ that we work with constantly. If they're in Australia, it's impossible to overlap with New York and Sydney and us. But there's people literally everywhere. Israel, another big hub, right? And so that's just the reality of the work. My manager is in the U S in Colorado. So closer to the East coast, but not quite. And so then yeah, it's no, it's still like six. Cause it's an hour behind New York, I think, but I would have to check, but say. Yeah. So yeah, my afternoons are obviously always packed with meetings even just to talk to my team. I need to wait for them to be online. And it's usually 2 PM my time, my mornings, luckily I tend to keep them as free as possible because the two or three people in Europe, I just pushed their meetings to the afternoon so that at least I don't have to I can focus, and I can have undivided attention to some extent in the morning. But yeah that's what it is now in terms of, to go back to your question on how do I manage the team? It's obviously a very big question that we can dissect, but I do have a blueprint. And as I was thinking through, yeah, our meeting I actually realized that I do have a blueprint that I've applied time and again. And actually, I joined this team, the business management role a year and a half ago, right? It was June, 2022. And so I'm still like the idea of taking over a team or building a team is still very fresh in my mind. And so I thought we could go through that blueprint and maybe dig into some of the concepts. Sounds good.
Please share everything you've said so far at Golden Nuggets. So please.
All right. So I've got six steps that I always go through. So the first one is, especially if you're taking over a team is understand the people that you have, especially their chronotype, what their energizer and drainers are. And actually my team, we went through a, one of those cultural trainings exercises that you can find plenty online to learn these energizers, drainers, passions, outlets, things like that. And that to me is the first thing. Now, I should also mention that I have a very different or diverse team. I have program managers and business analysts, right? So by definition, those two categories of people are stereotypically or not, different. But understanding who they are and where they are is the most important thing. Then once you know the chronotype, if they prefer work in the morning, the evenings and night, whatever.
Sorry. But the chronotype why is this so important? Is this important? Because you have multiple time zones and you want to understand where they are most productive at the time, or tell a little bit more about that because...
So there's many different exceptions to the chronotype thing. So for instance, if I have someone remote or in a different location that I can't physically see every day, I obviously need to trust them a lot more than someone that's sat next to me. So if I email someone at Whatever, they are 9 a. m. or message them and they don't go back to me or come back to me until noon or 2 p m. or 3 p. m. That might be because of different reasons, right? They might be overloaded, they might be, it might just be that they like working, doing focused work in the mornings and they don't want disruptions. And instead, like I have I do for instance, or conversely, you might have someone that likes working on from 8 p. m. to 4 in the morning, right? Which is obviously. Not the case, but it could happen. And so knowing what your people prefer and how they behave, it might also help you adjust the way you reach out to them, the way you engage with them. That's why, to me, it is super important.
Thank you.
Makes sense.
So pretty much, probably a hundred percent. And this is by the way it differs from classic management techniques because most managers usually I wouldn't say force, but ask the team members to allocate their time and needs and whatever to their manager's needs. You are completely sitting on the right side of the horse, right? So you are actually asking them how they trying to work and why they prefer to work and that's how you engage with them. So that's cool. Thank you. Sorry. It's yeah. And the second one.
So that was understand people. The second one is to map out the scope of the work, right? So here, especially if you're building a new team, you need to understand what do we do as a team? What profiles do I have? Or do I need for the people that I have? But also what are their thoughts What are our objectives and responsibilities as an organization, as a team? And so as I was alluding to earlier, I have BAs, I have PMs. Obviously, the roles require very different work. BAs would spend more time building models, technical work, SQL codes, dashboards by themselves. Compared to PMs, right? Who do have a lot of stakeholder management. Potentially face to face meetings or list synchronous meetings with again remote teams. And so understanding that as a leader is the most important thing on the lead up to the third step, which is by far to me the most important one. Which is mechanisms. So I am if you if you look at my linked in one in two posts are about mechanisms. So mechanisms is what which is processes frameworks. You can call it many different ways, but is what removes best intentions from your efforts, right? And what allows you to really deliver whatever it is that you want to deliver. And so I then set up mechanisms. And here's where you really need to think about your scope of work and the people that you have. Because the mechanisms can be different, could be asynchronous, the documents that I was talking about earlier, repositories, project trackers, shared documents, many different things, or resources to actually encourage people to collaborate in their own time, and or synchronous type of mechanisms, meetings, whether face to face at the same time, or even cause. It's not just cause like brainstorming and rituals, exactly. But I guess the macro point is that once you have those mechanisms, you need to understand how to drive the motion through right over time. So how do you ensure accountability? That to me is the most important thing. So even if we have a face to face meet or live meeting a synchronous meeting, I would always ask my team to share the minutes of the meeting or recap email or a flash update or something that remains for those that weren't there, that can help people ramp up faster or that simply leaves a trail, right? And usually I try and build this ecosystem of mechanisms first, right? Because these are things that I do myself with my leaders and it's good to work for me, but I also push them to come up with their own mechanisms.
This is so interesting, by the way, just to to highlight to the audience one thing from this, that yes, you do need the SOPs of frameworks, the processes or mechanism or whatever you call it of systems. And yes, as a leader, you need to be the in charge to actually do that first and collaborate with others, but none of this makes any kind of sense and any use if you don't drive the action through those systems. These are just pretty little documents sitting on the cloud. If you don't drive them with some actions, sorry.
A hundred percent. Yeah. A hundred percent. And just to close the loop on that, I have two more steps. One is the so just set up people for success, right? Cause now, if you think about it, we have identified the people, the scope of the work, the mechanisms. Now, how do we set them up? What set ourselves up for success and usually as a leader, I what I really spend the most time on is establishing and understanding the right goals and KPIs or metrics success criteria, right? So I always look at the outcomes that I want the people to get to or the organization to get to and work backwards from that, but setting up goals. And it's paramount to me. And if it's not a goal, imagine yourself, if you're a program on a program manager, you always, or often manage a program. So there should be some sort of like success criteria, success indicators, like the launch of the program, whatever, if you're building a dashboard or an analysis, the outcome should be delivering that dashboard, right? But and so I think what a lot of managers might not always understand, and that's also what a lot of my mentoring is all about is that it's not always about a number. It's not always Oh, I need to drive sales up by 10% and my team is a business analytics team. I don't know how to go them on that. So you need to be flexible and understanding of what the objective is, which is the delivery of something or the achievement of something. And you should always be able to go someone on that.
And it also should be, by the way, you, it should come from you but it has to be a collaborative approach because there are people involved and for them might be a little bit different in terms of a goal setting on the personal goals and whatever you need to align it with the actual career path. Everyone is individual there.
And that actually, it's a really nice segue into the 5th point, which is to help them grow. So we are not machines, right? And we're not just here to do our job and our work. And we do that. But there should be more. There should be that progression, that development. And so the fifth step is always to build a personal development plan. In partnership with my team, obviously to understand what it is that they really want to do and become like five years out, 10 years out, but even six months out. And so here's where some of your people will tell you that they want to become more technical or learn Six Sigma or become scrum masters or whatever the case is. And it's then my duty as their leader to help them get there. And hopefully this, which is often like a synchronous offline work how does this fit with a bigger picture? And how do I make it all work? And this is my blueprint, to be honest with you.
How do you hire? Because I guess. This is a very fine blueprint and it's very straightforward, but it requires people that are autonomous, independent, making ownership, have a, have some stuff, some sort of like a growth mindset, right? They want to grow not just as a person as well, but also within the company, within a project. And I guess a lot of Depends on the first filter on the hiring.
You, yeah, a hundred percent, you're correct, Peter. And I think there's one thing that helps me as a Amazonian in this case, and I don't want to sound cheeky or anything, but we have a really strong culture at Amazon, which is substantiated by these 10, 12 leadership principles that really are there in everything we do, even at the hiring. And you mentioned some of those words, keywords, and I picked on them. You mentioned they need to have ownership. Ownership is one of our LPs, leadership principles. And I would test candidates on ownership. I would test them on bias for action, on earned trust, on customer obsession. Like these are some of the leadership principles on think big on deliver results. And if you after the interview process demonstrate that you have those traits, they're more likely than not. You're a person that fits within what we just talked through. Like you are eager. You want to grow, develop, deliver and do like you're obviously a doer, but a doer that has the concept start right and navigate ambiguity and what. There's one thing that I wanted to mention, though, which, yes, all of these things need to be true, but there is different degrees at which these peculiarities come through are expected at different stage of one's career. So if I want hiring an entry level job or profile compared to a very senior sort of program managers or whatever, the blueprint still works the same, what changes is the goals and the mechanisms, right? I might have mechanisms to be closer to the entry level person to have a bit more scrutiny, especially at the start, not to micromanage anyone, but just to make sure they are set up for success compared to a more tenured professional who I might just leave by themselves.
Yeah. I know what to do. Just leave me alone and I will just deliver. Let's regroup weekly to see how the goals are. Exactly. Yeah, totally. Are those leadership roles transparent? Sorry, leadership principles that you mentioned, for example. Transparency, yeah. 100 percent like for externals as well, or just internally for Amazon?
No, if you actually go through the loop HR recruitment, they usually tell you they prepare on the leadership principles. You can find them online actually. And yeah, totally transparent.
How much do you let's like, this was the time questions for transparency. How transparent is the whole operation of the team? So for example, yes, obviously within your team, I guess everything that you just said in the blueprint. Everything has to be transparent anyway, in order to do the blueprint work, but you are just one team within the whole big AWS or even Amazon. Do you have a opportunity to grasp or collect ideas or just see how others are doing it? Obviously you are not alone in this game.
No. Yeah, and I wish I could give you a version for the answer. I don't think there is one. At Amazon, we have an internal wiki page, for instance, a wikipedia, that is public and visible to everyone at Amazon, where teams... Actually have their own presence. My team has our own, we have our own wiki page and we actually have the large, the wiki page of our large organization, which we're in and everything sorts of ties together. So I have found myself over these years looking for things on the wiki page. Hey, who's doing whatever cost optimization. And you will look for information there, right? It's a very labor intensive type of process because obviously you need to skim through results and validate them, whatever. But it does give you a kickstart into potentially reaching out to people and learning more. An alternative thing that we have at Amazon is the mentorship program. And it's a formal like a formal program that you can subscribe to where you can actually book sessions with mentors and get to know people from all across the organization in a very transparent way. So you set up your meetings, get to know them and build your network that way. I've done that myself. Time and again, and that's super helpful. And the third thing is that these documents, the ones I talked about earlier are often cascaded or distributed across the teams that actually have a stake in them. Now there's obviously highly sensitive documents, but there's also Oh, I'm working on this initiative. Let me forward that one page or two pages to that team I know might be interested right and get them to feed back on my thinking and this way you actually get to know what other parts of the organizations are doing now going from AWS to retail and to operations is obviously more complicated, like those teams are further removed, but they also do things that are really What They don't necessarily overlap as much on and so everything is relative. But yeah.
Perfect. You answered my question. Pretty much everything is transparent internally. And I also loved when you said that, yes, you do have the Wikipedia. Yes, everything is there. Yes. You can find pretty much anything there. It's a bummer to do the searching because obviously you are a huge organization. But the information that's there serves as a amazing point of reference to set up a meeting with the right person that you need to talk to. And normal usually that's the only case where you'd actually need that. You just need to know who you want to talk, who you want to reach out in a larger organization. So totally come on like you are, you're talking only about gold stuff. What are your challenges? Yes. So what do you struggle with?
You have a lot of challenges, no, but like one of the things that, you know, managing a remote team or dislocated team is inevitably challenging. It is like you can have all the mechanisms that you want, all the tools, all the asynchronous work. But at the end of the day, I do still find it challenging. Even just the times and difference is a challenge. And it's even more challenging when you really need you would really want to spend more time with someone, but you physically can't. So you have someone that reports into you, sits in New York or in Israel, whatever, and you know that they would benefit from seeing you or someone else in your team go through the same motion, but those two people are just... On the opposite side of the world and finding a bridge or building a bridge will never be as effective as being physically together. And it doesn't have to be like forever, but it could be for like a week, a month, a day. And this is inevitably challenging. Even the cost of coordination for me, it's really challenging.
That's just stop you there. Sorry, but because. Like you're it's like triggering to me and I wanted to want to tell you something that most remote work advocates or whatever, they usually tell you that remote work is the only option and everyone is preferring that, and this is the only way of working and productivity is better. We we all know the details, but I just. I just want to tell that yes, in almost all cases, I personally would prefer to have an office where everyone is coming in. We spend time together. We collaborate together. Of course, it's in a more free way than we did that kind of 10 years ago. But that's just not the case. It's like thinking back in a nostalgic terms to all the ways of living together. It's not going to happen, even though that you personally prefer to do that. Your colleagues are still scattered across the globe. So you need to work with that. And that's it.
A hundred percent. And unfortunately, like I wish I could give you the silver bullet or something that is done, there's none. And at the end of the day, the sooner you understand that as a leader, the better. And perhaps you as a leader can make, can actually do something to bridge, right? Or reduce that physical distance as much as possible. So for instance, getting your team together once a quarter, once a month, right? Depending on whatever locations, budgets and all that. But you can then find these opportunities to break some of the barriers. It's not going to fix everything, but it's certainly going to improve it.
Do you do that, by the way, at at Amazon? So do you have it's hard to, it's a hard question because a team retreat is totally different in a large enterprise than to a startup. But for you I don't know, you have 10 something people, obviously it's always worthwhile to do that connection.
Then actually There is, I have two people, one in Italy and one in Germany that I've only seen once since I took over the team for whatever reason. So it's not always easy. It's not always that straightforward even in an organization like Amazon, because if I'm allowed to me, then my peers who might have 40 plus people also would want to, but then it becomes obviously logistically a lot more difficult. And it's a bit more complicated than that, but if you can, as a leader, you totally should. And actually, as soon as you get your teams together, even your stakeholders, by the way, like this is not just about your team, like the people that you constantly work with, if you get to meet them, the collaboration, the connection will benefit dramatically. And so sometimes it is worth doing that. But yeah, it's not always easy.
It's if someone wants to meet with you, not just in person, but like online because we know each other from MentorCruise, but but where people can find you online.
Yeah. So I'm active on MentorCruise I actually got the badge. I'm one of the top mentors now. I'm super proud of it. So I really believe in mentoring and helping others because not all companies have a mentorship system. And actually it took me a while to realize that. But I'm very big on mentoring. So MentorCruise, but I'm also on LinkedIn. So the easiest way I have a personal website, but clunky, if you reach out to me on LinkedIn, I'm always there. I'm always happy to help as well. If someone's got a question, they're like, Hey I want to build a mechanism or what'd you think about this? And so we, I'm always happy to talk about it.
Thank you. This was amazing. You shared so much value in short, in this short time. Thank you very much for your time.
I appreciate that, Peter. I really enjoyed it.
Thank you.
Thank you for organizing.
